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An interview with A.Zakaev (Russian text on Delfi.lt) SNA CHECHENPRESS. The Publications and Media Department, 29/04/08.
The Prime Minister of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeriya Akhmed Zakaev in an interview with the correspondent of the Lituanian Catholic Paper «ÕÕI amzius» («21 century») Imantas Melyans.
I.M.. – Prime Minister, at the end of last year the part of the international community which sympathises with the Chechen people watched very closely the famous changes within the leadership of the Chechen Resistance Movement. Could you give a brief account of the situation in the Chechen Resistance leadership prior to the declaration of the Caucasus Emirate and name the likely paymasters of this rather dubious project?
A.Z. – It is common knowledge that Russia is a vigorous opponent of the Chechen sovereignty. One could theoretically suppose that the Russian leadership has acquired new supporters in the authors of the ‘Emirate’ idea but the situation is much simpler, in fact. The men behind the idea - Isa Umarov and Movladi Udugov - are experienced provocateurs. While Russia without doubt is the paymaster of the project.
Attempts to use religious rhetoric in order to divert the Chechen leadership from its chosen course to build an independent state have been many, right from the very beginning in 1991. The notorious Beslan Gantemirov while still Chairman of the Islamic Party of Chechnya and one of the people who were close to Dzhokhar Dudaev was urging the leadership in 1991-1993 to declare Sharia rule in the republic. Similarly notorious, Adam Deniev took a radical step by declaring himself a khalif. Having failed to break the resolve of Dzhokhar Dudaev the two provocateurs revealed their true faces and became engaged in subversive terrorist activities on the territory of the Chechen Republic under the Russian banners.
When in 1989 the Islamic Revival Party of the USSR held its inaugural congress the KGB knew very well what they were after. In the same way the Liberal-Democratic Party of Vladimir Zhirinovsky has prevented real liberal-democrats of Russia to unite for the last twenty years, the branches of the Islamic Revival Party of the USSR which sprung roots in the Muslim regions of the former Soviet Union successfully split the Muslim community into the ‘right’ Muslims and the ‘wrong’ ones. The so-called Islamic radicalism provided Moscow with a useful vaccine against national liberation movements of any Muslim nation.
To succeed a national liberation movement needs unity of its people and secondly, the sympathy and support of the people of good will in the parent state and the neighbouring countries. Religious extremism precludes both these requirements.
I cannot tell you now when Anzor Astemirov had turned into the ‘right kind of a Muslim’. As for Isa Umarov and his brother Movladi Udugov we know that together with Beslan Gantemirov and Adam Deniev they were among the founders of the Islamic Revival Party of the USSR. The situation before the declaration of the Caucasus Emirate you have asked me to depict was the culmination of the conflict between the leadership of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeriya and the opponents of the Chechen sovereignty represented by the above mentioned figures. But they have failed in their plan to get rid of the legitimate government institutions of the ChRI. On our part, we have finally got rid of the deadly noose which has tormented us for so many years.
I.M. . – The absolute majority of the true friends of the Chechen people in Lithuania have been very happy to learn about the measures that you and the ChRI Parliament took together in order to put an end to the criminal attempts to destroy not only the legitimate government institutions of the ChRI but the Chechen Republic itself. Could you tell us about the fundamental principles of the new Chechen leadership’s political course?
A.Z. – The Chechen leadership’s political course is based on the 1992 ChRI Constitution according to which the Chechen Republic is an independent state. The ChRI Constitution has embraced all the well known democratic principles which I am sure do not need to be mentioned yet again.
I.M. – Could you tell me about your estimates of the size of the possible support for the new Chechen leadership and for the ideologues of the so-called Emirate in the Chechen society itself, among the Chechen politicians, in the Chechen Diaspora and among the Chechen field commanders operating in Chechnya?
A.Z. – Let us not imagine that the paymasters of the Emirate are naive. Nobody understands better than they the whole absurdity of the statement which they had drafted for Dokka Umarov. They did not have to try and make it at all acceptable to anyone. What they needed was a self-liquidation of the Chechen statehood which is what would have happened had it not been for the ChRI Parliament and the measures it took.
You may succeed in finding people who had supported Dokka Umarov’s statement but you would not find those who took it seriously.
I.M. – Prime Minister, the Chechen people’s struggle for its independence and freedom enjoys the support of many intellectuals and the majority of human rights organisations throughout Europe and the US. Which is not what one could say about the official government positions of these countries or the position of the leadership of the major international organisations, unfortunately. It does not appear, however, that you or other Chechen politicians – MPs or members of the Chechen government – are happy just to sit there twirling your thumbs. I would like to know (if it is proper to make this public) which international organisations and which Western bodies already appreciate the importance of mutually beneficial contacts with the only legitimate leadership of the Chechen state?
A.Z.. – Some things have to be accepted for what they are worth. Those who can afford to have an interest in the Caucasus and realise the importance of Chechnya for the region maintain regular contacts with us. Our meetings for a number of reasons are of a confidential nature but this does not undermine in any way their mutually beneficial impact. This is as far as the governments of some Western European countries are concerned. Besides, we also have regular meetings with members of different national parliaments and representatives of international human rights organisations.
I.M. – The Lithuanian public as well as the publics of other Western Christian states (Catholic and Protestant alike) have reacted with disbelief and concern to the anti-Christian and anti-Judaic statements by the former leadership of the ChRI (or, rather, its ideologues). At times one had the impression that the Chechen land and the Chechen state were being tormented not by the barbarians of the satanic fascist Russia but by the Americans, the British and the Israelis. What is the attitude of the new Chechen leadership to the national and religious minorities of the ChRI and to what the proponents of the Emirate call the ‘Judo-Christian world’?
A.Z. – By cultivating everywhere in Chechnya the so-called ‘Islamic Order’, the FSB knew very well what to expect from such an order. The ownership of mobile communications in Chechnya, which were a branch of the Moscow mobile communications, had been specifically handed over to the Emir of the ‘Islamic Order’ Movladi Udugov. The generous hand of Moscow had also made him a present of the TV equipment to carry out propaganda campaigns for the Islamic Order and to discredit the legitimately and popularly elected President of Chechnya Aslan Maskhadov. On the eve of and during the provocation in Dagestan, despite the total information blackout, Udugov’s Internet site ‘Kavkaz-Tsentr’ kept on functioning without a hitch informing the world about the Chechen mujahadeen campaign. With the first military actions, however, Udugov and his website moved to a safe location and keep chiming in with Moscow which presents Chechnya as a hotbed of international Islamic terrorism.
It was Udugov and his team who presented the events as a conflict between Islam and the Judo-Christian world. Unfortunately, many Chechen leaders fell under the spell of this religious rhetoric, although there have always been those who would expose Udugov’s pro-Kremlin propaganda. One might say that there is one positive aspect of the Emirate declaration by Dokka Umarov, namely: it served as a moment of final dissociation of the Chechen leadership from Udugov and his influence. As to your last question, the Chechen leadership has a very respectful attitude to the national and religious minorities of the ChRI and to the representatives of all races and all religions, wherever they are.
I.M. – Recently you expressed the idea that the new leader of the Russian Federation might turn out to be more flexible in his search for a non-violent political solution of the Chechen issue. Do you really think that in the next few decades Russia could miraculously turn into a civilised state which one could have a mutually respectful and fair dialogue with? Or was it simply a declaration of good intentions on your part, addressed not so much to the Kremlin as to the international community?
A.Z. – To begin with, the Putin era with its attempts to solve the Chechen-Russian conflict by force has come and gone, while the conflict remains unresolved. Secondly, it is the Russian tradition for a new ruler to embark on a new course even if he inherits his sovereign throne from his father. A new approach to the Russian-Chechen conflict could only mean a search for a political solution. As for its prospects in the nearest decades, I am convinced that Russia will change for the better. In order to do this, however, it would cease to be a colonial power which subjugates a dozen or so Muslim nations in the process. In such a scenario Russia could really become a proper member of the civilised international community.
I.M.- Thank you for your answers.
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