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Radio Marsho (audio) SNA CHENPRESS. Publications and Media Section, 20/05/08
GIA «Chechenpress» is offering a transcription of the interview with the ChRI Prime Minister Akhmed Zakaev which was conducted over the telephone by the North Caucasus Service of Radio Liberty (Radio Marsho) (translated from Chechen)
«Marsho»: «Today one could state that the Russian colonial policies in Chechnya have collapsed and this should be taken into account in order to achieve accord in our divided society » – such statements by Akhmed Zakaev have triggered a broad discussion in the media. Some say that the ChRI Prime Minister has made them in order to reach some sort of agreement with Ramzan Kadyrov. Others think that Zakaev is eulogising Kadyrov. To find out the true state of affairs we telephoned the man himself in London. Here is the discussion which began with pointing out the many questions which have emerged as a result of these statements….
A. Zakaev: Whatever the case might be, I have always been of the opinion that if questions arise they should be answered. Insh’Allah, as much as I can manage to do this I shall try to answer all the posed questions.
One of our government’s main tasks and goals today is to bring to the minimum and to eliminate, whenever possible, the dire consequences of the policy pursued today – the policy of turning the colonial war into an internal Chechen struggle. I distinguish what I have called the completed decolonisation of Chechnya, in other words, the deliverance of Chechnya’s territory from the colonial subjugation from the notion of ‘occupation’. The present occupation Chechnya has found itself under is a temporary problem. It is possible to get rid of occupation in 24 hours – we have witnessed such processes ourselves, have seen this happen. What I have said follows from my position on these issues. Our main task is not to fight the police or the local Chechen officials. Our task, which is also the task our military faces is to oppose Russia and its policies in the continuing occupation of our state. On top of that we also have to preserve the legal basis of our state in order to pass it on to the new generations of the Chechen people. These are our tasks today, not taking power, being in power or using power for some other gains.
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that if today a policeman who has joined the Russians against our fighters gets killed he leaves a very tainted name to his descendants, he cuts them off from their future. This is the first thing and we should be clear about it.
If, however, there is someone, who has 100 thousand Russians breathing down his neck and who says: ‘We should set up an ambush and kill the Chechen policeman’, he or they, the mujahadeen who pursue such a policy are in fact implementing the FSB plan. And those who encourage them to do it, who declare a fatwa for such deeds are themselves linked to the Russian secret services.
I am talking now about our people – 90% of all the people in a nation cannot be traitors and should not be labelled as such, with claims that those staying at home are in fact munafiqs or murtads (hypocrites and renegades).
I would like to remind you that if our people had left the country and had not stayed in the country, surviving all the hardship, grief and privations, we would have lost our country. There are plenty of examples of this happening. Take the Krasnodar Region – today the Cossacks and other colonists who live there call those lands their own, without a mention of the indigenous peoples destroyed and deported by them.
A similar plan existed in relation to our country. It had been mooted by Zhirinovsky: ‘Chechnya without Chechens’. But it did not work. I am talking about the whole people, which this group is part of.
Those who went between the people and the occupants at the time, used to call the fighters sheltering in the forest ‘shaitans’ and claimed that they would not rest until they destroy every one of them. They said that anyone who was helping the fighters should be killed and denounced such people to the Russian occupants. Those who served the Russian policies in Chechnya are all criminals and should answer for it in any case, and they will be brought to justice when the time comes. But in order to bring them to justice and to achieve results, we need victory first and foremost. Victory which can be gained only by uniting our people – in other words, uniting the fighters and the population. Such unity is the guarantee of our future victory.
«Marsho»: The media report that there are certain documents which have been drawn up in order to achieve agreements. Moreover, there is talk of certain people and their intentions: quoting such names as Khasan Baiev, allegedly sent by you to achieve agreements and to settle relations with Ramzan. Is this true?
A.Zakaev: I shall tell you the whole truth: in the last 6-7 years I saw Khasan Baiev only once, when he came to a conference. These are nothing but rumours spread by the people who are involved in implementing the Russian agenda – Udugov, his brother Isa Umarov and their entourage. Baiev Khasan has got nothing to do with the government I lead. I had had no information about his movements, whether he had come back home or not, until I read what they had written. I have never sent him anywhere.
As far as Kadyrov is concerned – he is one of the worst culprits among those who were urging people to kill the Chechen fighters. I have no doubt that whatever anti-Chechen statements he makes, however much he tries to toady to the Russians, calling for the destruction of Chechens – for the Russians he would primarily remain a person who has fought against them. At the first opportunity they would kill him in a most treacherous way.
It is not for me or for the people to judge Kadyrov’s future place in history: he himself has determined his place and his own value. He took the side of the enemy who had come to wage war against his people at the most difficult time for our country. This is what will remain in history, what the descendants will inherit. But if he bothers to search for it he will have an opportunity – even today – to find a way of relieving himself of even such a heavy burden of evil.
«Marsho»: What do you think the fighters will make of your statements, those who carry arms and who do not ponder so deeply over these problems?
À.Zakaev: What I have said is unequivocal – it has been said in total honesty and frankness. I don’t think therefore there could be other interpretations of it. This topic has been raised by the Russian media who have taken Yamadaev’s side in his opposition to Kadyrov, for the sake of propaganda and for the sake of promoting the idea that he, Kadyrov, is allegedly more dangerous than the Yamadaev supporters. This is the main reason for the statements by the Russian media such as: ‘Just look at Zakaev, even he praises Kadyrov, who should be done with.’
Now for the Chechen fighters. It is my duty to inform them, to explain to them what is useful and what is harmful, I am much older than they and better informed about certain aspects of our cause. It is the duty of people like myself, who are older and who make every effort to get rid of the present evil of discord.
Only when this evil is removed can we count on Allah’s help and on the victory for our people in its opposition to the Russians. Today it is our duty to work on this, to foster the understanding necessary for the implementation of such tasks. Despite the fact that we are not at home today, this is what I would like to convey to the Chechen fighters in my addresses and my contacts with them.
«Marsho»: Akhmed, what should be done and who should do it, what should be said and who should say it, how should the situation pan out in order for you to make an agreement with the Kadyrov regime?
A.Zakaev: Look, if this were my private business today, then I can assure you that there is no problem for me to do it as early as tomorrow. But this is not my private business I am engaged in. The cause which has reached me and has been passed on to me, is the continuation of the cause hundreds and thousands of the best Chechens have been involved in, many of whom have perished on this sacred journey.
Therefore it is not acceptable by anyone to betray the cause and the journey which our country has been traveling on for the last 10-15 years, preserving the legal foundations of our state. If I go home today, I shall betray not just the living but also the dead. Therefore this has never been put on the agenda by any party nor is it on the agenda. When we talk about the possibilities of a political settlement, however, it is my duty and I shall look for ways to achieve such a settlement and work in this direction.
This is what the MPs and ministers who are at my side are working on. Zhalaudin Saralyapov, the head of our state institutions leads this process, resting on the legal foundations of our state and guarding them. Together we implement and plan to continue putting into action our political plans.
As for various rumours and hearsay – who has thought what, we intend to continue our work taking no notice of these rumours.
«Marsho»: Ichkeriya’s Prime Minister Akhmed Zakaev talking to us in a telephone interview from London.
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